This is Not Less so, plate 67 from The Disasters of War Possibly 1815 - 1863

Editor: Here we have Goya’s “This is Not Less So,” plate 67 from *The Disasters of War*, likely etched sometime between 1815 and 1863. It's currently held at the Art Institute of Chicago. Looking at this print, with its spindly lines and crowded composition, I feel an overwhelming sense of burdened resilience. What strikes you when you see this work? Curator: Burdened resilience - I love how you phrase that. It's as if Goya bottled the exhaustion of a nation and then, somehow, found the grit to etch it into being. I see generations carrying the weight of tradition, or perhaps expectation. Tell me, what *don't* you see? Editor: That’s a profound point… I don’t see triumph, maybe? Or even real hope. Just this dogged determination to...keep going. Curator: Precisely! Remember, Goya lived through some turbulent times, the Napoleonic Wars shaking Spain to its core. He witnessed cruelty firsthand. Does that knowledge shift your interpretation at all? Editor: It makes the print even more tragic. Knowing the context, the figures seem to be carrying more than just physical objects, but also the weight of history, trauma… Is it a criticism of war, then? Curator: Absolutely, but it’s so much more. It's a commentary on human endurance, the breaking point, and the unsettling gray areas between victim and oppressor, isn’t it? There are echoes of Daumier here, of course, and perhaps a glimpse forward to Kathe Kollwitz’s explorations of trauma and its consequences. What will you carry away with you today? Editor: I will carry that complexity, how art can be about trauma and also somehow be evidence of resilience, all at once. Curator: Exactly. Art like this makes us think, forces us to confront uncomfortable truths. Goya isn’t giving us answers; he's presenting us with the questions we often try to avoid.