Apostel Johannes met miskelk en slang 1623 - 1660

Curator: Let’s discuss "Apostle John with chalice and snake," an engraving housed here at the Rijksmuseum, created sometime between 1623 and 1660 by Pieter de Bailliu. Editor: My immediate impression is one of dramatic solemnity, the stark contrasts typical of baroque printmaking really highlighting the weighty fabrics and the almost unsettling imagery of a snake emerging from a chalice. Curator: It's fascinating to consider this engraving within its historical context. The Apostle John is often depicted with a chalice, but the addition of the snake references a specific legend. It speaks to the challenges faced by early Christians and their struggles against perceived heresy and toxicity, here materialized through the symbol of the snake. The engraving almost acts as a visual theological argument, asserting the triumph of faith. Editor: Right, but let’s consider the engraving process itself. The controlled and laborious act of carving these fine lines into a metal plate would have required significant skill and time. It's interesting how such a mechanical reproductive technique can be employed to convey what’s supposed to be an emblem of faith. Are we supposed to admire the saint, the craftsman, or perhaps, both? What about the material reality of its consumption: who would have purchased this? Curator: These prints often served as devotional aids, yes, but also reinforced existing societal structures, disseminating ideologies and beliefs. When seen through that lens, this image is a fascinating cultural artifact. I wonder how much autonomy the artist had here. Editor: A powerful reminder that objects, regardless of their spiritual subject, are ultimately commodities, shaped by labor, class, and consumption. Thinking of the cultural exchange across religious icons really frames this discussion. Curator: Indeed, understanding the multiple layers interwoven within this baroque engraving allows us to analyze its message. Thank you for sharing your insight on materials, as I explore it further through religious dissemination, and a deeper dive into Saint John's cultural narrative. Editor: Always enlightening to consider art through its tangible being and conditions of production, and how those shaped our engagement with art objects themselves.